THURSDAY, DECEMBER 17, 1998 D E P A R T M E N T O F L A B OR MINE, SAFETY, AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION DIESEL PARTICULATE MATTER EXPOSURE OF UNDERGROUND COAL MINERS Pages: 1 through 204 Place: Birmingham, Alabama Date: DECEMBER 17, 1998 THURSDAY, DECEMBER 17, 1998 D E P A R T M E N T O F L A B OR MINE, SAFETY, AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION DIESEL PARTICULATE MATTER EXPOSURE OF UNDERGROUND COAL MINERS 2 1 I N D E X 2 3 SPEAKERS: PAGE 4 MR. GLENN PIERSON 16 5 " " 198 6 MR. WILLIAM SAWYER 29 7 " " 184 8 MR. DENNY CAPLEY 36 9 MR. JIM BRACKNER 39 10 " " 198 11 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE 48 12 MR. RICKY PARKER 54 13 MR. GARY TRAMELL 69 14 MR. CHUCK STEWART 77 15 MR. DALE BYRAM 84 16 MR. LARRY JORDAN 90 17 MR. TED SARTAIN 95 18 MR. LARRY PATTS 137 19 DR. PRAMOD THAKUR 149 20 MR. MIKE CAUVLE 161 21 MR. JEFFREY DUNCAN 166 22 " " 199 23 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 THE PANEL: 4 5 OFFICE OF STANDARDS, REGULATIONS AND VARIANCES 6 Program Analyst 7 4015 Wilson Boulevard, Rm. 631 8 Arlington, Virginia 22203 9 BY: MS. PAMELA KING 10 ECONOMIST: 11 BY: MR. RONALD FORD 12 13 OFFICE OF THE SOLICITOR 14 Solicitor 15 4105 Wilson Boulevard, Rm. 400 16 Arlington, Virginia 22203 17 BY: MS. SANDRA WESDOCK 18 19 OFFICE OF PROGRAM EVALUATION & INFORMATION 20 RESOURCES 21 Mathematical Statistician 22 P.O. Bos 25357 23 Denver, Colorado 80225 4 1 BY: MR. JON KOGUT 2 3 PITTSBURGH HEALTH AND SAFETY TECHNOLOGY CENTER 4 Chief, Dust Division 5 P.O. Box 18233, Cochrans Mill Road 6 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15236 7 BY: MR. THOMAS TOMB 8 SUPERVISORY ENGINEER: 9 BY: MR. ROBERT (BOB) HANEY 10 11 APPROVAL AND CERTIFICATION CENTER 12 Industrial Park Road 13 Triadelphia, West Virginia 26059 14 BY: MR. GEORGE SASEEN 15 16 MINE, HEALTH AND SAFETY ACADEMY 17 Industrial Hygienist 18 Beckley, West Virginia 19 BY: MR. WILLIAM McKINNEY 20 21 22 23 5 1 -- P R O C E E D I N G S -- 2 3 4 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Good morning. I'd 5 like to start the public hearing for this 6 proposal for diesel particulate in underground 7 coal miners. 8 My name is Thomas Tomb. I am the 9 Chief, Dust Division Health and Safety 10 Technology Center, located in Pittsburgh 11 Pennsylvania. I will be the moderator of this 12 public hearing on MSHA's proposed rule 13 addressing diesel particulate exposure of 14 underground coal miners. 15 Personally, and on behalf of the 16 Assistant Secretary J. Davitt McAteer, I would 17 like to take this opportunity to express our 18 appreciation for each of you for being here 19 today and for your input. With me on the panel 20 today are: Jon Kogut, from the Office of 21 Program Evaluation and Information Resources; 22 George Saseen, from the Approval and 23 Certification Center; Robert Haney, from the 6 1 Environmental Assessment of Contaminant Control 2 Branch of the Dust Division; Sandra Wesdock, 3 from the Office of the Solicitor; William 4 McKinney, from the Mine, Safety and Health 5 Academy; Ronald Ford and Pamela King, from the 6 Office of Standards, Regulations and 7 Variances. 8 This hearing is being held in 9 accordance with Section 10 of the Federal, Mine 10 Safety and Health Act of 1977. As is the 11 practice of this Agency, formal rules of 12 evidence will not apply. 13 We are making a verbatim transcript 14 of this hearing. It will be made an official 15 part of the rulemaking record. The hearing 16 transcript along with the all the comments that 17 MSHA has received today and the proposed rule 18 will be available for your review. If you want 19 to get a copy of the hearing transcript for 20 your own use, however, you must make your own 21 arrangements with the reporter. 22 We value your comments. MSHA will 23 accept written comments and other data from 7 1 anyone, including those of you who do not 2 present an oral statement. You may submit 3 written comments to Pamela King or send them to 4 Carol Jones, Acting Director of Standards, 5 Regulations, and Variances, at the address that 6 has been listed in the hearing notice. We will 7 include them in the rulemaking record. If you 8 feel you need to modify your comments or wish 9 to submit additional comments following this 10 hearing, the record will stay open until 11 February 16, 1999. You are encouraged to 12 submit to MSHA a copy of your comments on 13 computer disk. 14 Your comments are essential in 15 helping MSHA develop the most appropriate rule 16 that fosters safety and health in our Nation's 17 mines. We appreciate your views on this 18 rulemaking and assure you that your comments 19 whether written or oral will be considered by 20 MSHA in finalizing this rule. 21 In another rulemaking on October 29, 22 1998, we published a proposal to address diesel 23 particulate matter exposure of underground 8 1 metal and nonmetal miners. The comment period 2 for that proposed rule will close on February 3 26, 1999. 4 Hearings for the metal and nonmetal 5 proposal will be announced in a future of 6 Federal Register Notice. You may obtain copies 7 of that proposal by downloading it from MSHA's 8 website at WWW.MSHA.GOV or by calling the 9 Office of Standards, Regulations, and Variances 10 at 703-235-1910. 11 However, the scope of this hearing 12 today is limited to the April 9th, 1998, 13 proposed rule addressing diesel particulate 14 matter exposure of underground coal miners. 15 This hearing is the fourth of four public 16 hearings to be held on this proposed rule. The 17 first was held in Salt Lake City on November 18 17th, 1998; the second was held at Beckley, 19 West Virginia, at the Mine, Safety, and Health 20 Academy on November 19th, 1998; and the third 21 was held in Mt. Vernon, Illinois, on December 22 15th, 1998. 23 Information regarding these hearings 9 1 were published in the Federal Resister on 2 October 19th, and can also be obtained from 3 MSHA's website on the internet, and there are a 4 view copies here, if you would like to get them 5 today. 6 On April 9th, 1998, MSHA Published a 7 proposed rule that would reduce risks to 8 underground coal miners of serious hazards that 9 associated with exposure to high concentrations 10 of diesel particulate matter. Diesel 11 particulate matter is a very small particle in 12 diesel exhaust. Underground miners are exposed 13 to far higher concentrations of this fine 14 particulate than any other group of workers. 15 The best available evidence indicates 16 that such high exposures put these miners at 17 excess risk of a variety of health effects, 18 including lung cancer. 19 The comment period for the proposed 20 rule is scheduled to close on August 7th, 1998. 21 However, due to requests from the mining 22 community, the agency extended the comment 23 period for an additional 60 days until 10 1 October 9th, 1998. 2 The proposed rule would require the 3 following: Proposed paragraph 72.500 would 4 require the installation and maintenance of 5 high-efficiency particulate filters on the most 6 polluting types of diesel equipment in 7 underground coal mines. It would require the 8 beginning 18 months after the date that the 9 rule promulgated, any piece of permissible 10 diesel-powered equipment operated in an 11 underground coal mine must be equipped with a 12 system capable of removing, on average, at 13 least 95 percent of the mass of DPM emitted 14 from the engine. 15 Additionally, 30 months after the 16 rule promulgated, any nonpermissible piece of 17 heavy duty -- and I stress heavy duty -- piece 18 of diesel-powered equipment operated in 19 underground coal mine be equipped with a system 20 of removing, on average, 95 percent of the mass 21 of the diesel particulate matter emitted from 22 the engine. 23 Any exhaust after-treatment device 11 1 installed to reduce the emission of DPM would 2 be required to be maintained in accordance with 3 manufacture specifications. 4 The proposal also sets forth the 5 Agency's Requirements for determining whether a 6 system is capable of removing, on average, at 7 least 95 percent of diesel particulate matter 8 by mass. It states that a filtration system 9 must be tested by comparing the results of the 10 emission tests of an engine with and without 11 the filtration system in place. 12 Proposed paragraph 72.510 is a 13 training requirement, which list the pertinent 14 areas in which construction must occur. The 15 training is to provide annually in all mines 16 using diesel-powered equipment, and is to be 17 provided without charge to the miner. It also 18 provides provisions on record retention, 19 access, and transfer. 20 And finally, proposed amendment to 21 paragraph 75.371 would amend existing paragraph 22 75.371, which is the mine ventilation plain 23 contents, to add one new requirement for an 12 1 underground mine's ventilation control plan. 2 The additional information is limited, but is 3 critical to the control of diesel particulate 4 matter. 5 The proposal would require the 6 ventilation plan to contain a list of 7 diesel-powered units used by the mine operator 8 together with information about each unit's 9 emissions control or filtration system. 10 Details relative to the efficiency of the 11 system and the method used to establish the 12 efficiency of the system for removing DPM must 13 be included. Any amendments to a mine's 14 ventilation plan must, of course, also follow 15 the Requirements of 30 CFR 75.370, which is the 16 mine's ventilation plan; Submission and 17 Approval Requirements. 18 MSHA received comments from various 19 sectors of the mining community in the 20 preliminarily reviewed the comments it has 21 received thus far. MSHA would particularly 22 like additional input from the mining community 23 regarding specific alternative approaches 13 1 discussed in the economic feasibility section 2 of the preamble. As you might recall, the 3 options discussed include: establishing a 4 concentration limit for DPM in the sector, 5 requiring filters on some light-duty equipment, 6 and looking at the filter and the engine as a 7 package that has to meet a particular emission 8 standard instead of requiring that all engines 9 be equipped with high-efficiency filter. 10 The Agency is also interested in 11 obtaining as many examples as possible of the 12 specific situation in individual mines. This 13 could include the composition of the diesel 14 fleet, what controls cannot be utilized to 15 special conditions, and any studies of 16 alternative controls you might have used for 17 the computer spreadsheet. 18 We also seek information about the 19 availability and cost of various control 20 technologies that are being developed; for 21 example, high-efficiency ceramic filters; also 22 experience with the use of available control 23 and information that will help us evaluate 14 1 alternative approaches for underground coal 2 mines. We would also like to hear about any 3 unusual situations that might warrant the 4 application of special provisions. 5 The Agency welcomes comments upon any 6 topics on which we should provide initial 7 guidance, as well as any alternative practices 8 which MSHA should accept for compliance before 9 various provisions of the rule go into effect. 10 Additionally, the National 11 Environmental Policy Act of 1969 requires each 12 Federal Agency to consider the environmental 13 effects of proposed actions and to prepare an 14 environmental impact statement on major actions 15 significantly affecting the quality of the 16 human environment. 17 On July 14th, 1998, MSHA published a 18 notice in the Federal Register that announced 19 its preliminary determination for the proposed 20 rule would have no significant environmental 21 impact. The comment period was scheduled to 22 close on August 10th, 1998, however, MSHA 23 extended that comment period until October 9th, 15 1 1998. The record will remain open, as stated 2 in the Public Hearing Notice, until February 3 16th, 1999, to allow for post-hearing comments 4 in date of submission. 5 MSHA reviews this rulemaking activity 6 as extremely important and knows that your 7 participation is also a reflection of the 8 importance you associate with this rulemaking. 9 To insure that an adequate record is made 10 during this proceeding when you present your 11 oral statement, or otherwise address the panel, 12 I ask that you come to the podium and clearly 13 state your name, spell your name, and state the 14 name and the organization that you represent. 15 It is my intent that during this 16 hearing, anyone who wishes to speak will be 17 given an opportunity. Anyone who has not 18 previously asked for time to speak needs to 19 tell us of their intention to do so by signing 20 the Request to Speak Sheet and let us know how 21 much time you will need to make your 22 presentation. I have the sheet up here, so at 23 the break if anybody that has not signed the 16 1 sheet wants to come up and sign it, they can do 2 that when we take for break or at lunch time. 3 We are scheduled to go until 5:00 4 p.m. today. Of course, if the presentation 5 don't go that long, then we'll abandon the 6 hearing earlier. 7 Our attempt to recognize all speakers 8 in the order in which they request to speak. 9 As the moderator, if necessary, I reserve the 10 right to modify the order in presentation in 11 the interest of fairness. I doubt that it will 12 be necessary, but I may also exercise 13 discretion to exclude irrelevant or unduly 14 repetitious material. In an order to clarify 15 certain points, the panel may ask questions of 16 the speakers. 17 To begin for the first speaker, we 18 will have Mr. Glenn Pierson: 19 MR. GLENN PIERSON: I'm Glenn 20 Pierson, G-l-e-n-n P-i-e-r-s-o-n. I am a 21 member of the United Mine Workers and I work at 22 Local 1928. 23 Back in the mid-1990s, we had these 17 1 similar hearings in Beckley, West Virginia. At 2 that time a gentlemen by the name of Norbert 3 Paas had a dry-filtration system that -- in the 4 neighborhood of 98 percent particulate that 5 would filter out. About four years have past 6 now, and we haven't seen any improvements in 7 our filtration systems. We have got more 8 equipment in the mines. We've got people 9 exposed to combinations of things that could 10 cause breathing problems: coal dust, silica, 11 and the diesel particulate. Your own tests and 12 studies have shown that 900 out of 1,000 people 13 that are exposed to these diesel particulates 14 could possibly come down with lung cancer. 15 The Pennsylvania State Laws have 16 chosen to protect their miners and go a little 17 bit further than what MSHA has done in the 18 past. And I think it's MSHA's moral obligation 19 to give the miners across the country the equal 20 protection that those Pennsylvania miners have. 21 Thank you. 22 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Okay. Wait a 23 minute, please. I have some questions here. 18 1 MR. GLENN PIERSON: Yes, sir. 2 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Any questions of 3 him? 4 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Sir, did you say 5 -- does your mine have any Norbert Paas' 6 dry-filtration systems? 7 MR. GLENN PIERSON: No, sir. 8 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Okay, are you 9 using any phasetology (phonetic) equipment? 10 MR. GLENN PIERSON: Yes, sir. 11 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: What type? Are 12 they with wet scrubbers? 13 MR. GLEEN PIERSON: Yes, sir. 14 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Could you provide 15 us with an inventory of that equipment at your 16 mine? 17 MR. GLENN PIERSON: Particular 18 numbers? 19 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Numbers and types 20 of equipment. 21 MR. GLENN PIERSON: Numbers, no, sir. 22 I could provide you with types. We've got a 23 diesel Ramcar, it's a Jeffrey, and we've got -- 19 1 let's see, I think we've got some Eimcos, and 2 -- what's the name of that other? Wagner. I'm 3 sorry. As far as face equipment. 4 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: As far as face 5 equipment you -- 6 MR. GLENN PIERSON: Yes, sir. We've 7 got diesel locomotives that run on a track 8 which is in our main intake. 9 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: If you could 10 provide that list, also if you could present us 11 with information on the usage and how much 12 they're used per days each piece of equipment, 13 an hour, two hours, if that's possible. 14 MR. GLENN PIERSON: The majority of 15 it is run the majority of the shift. 16 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Well, if you 17 could specify that, please. 18 MR. GLENN PIERSON: I can't at this 19 time. 20 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Well, I mean in 21 written form, if you would like to submit that 22 before the February 16 deadline. 23 MR. GLENN PIERSON: Yes, sir. 20 1 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Thank you. 2 MR. GLENN PIERSON: Thank you. 3 MR. THOMAS TOMB: I have one 4 question also -- 5 MR. GLENN PIERSON: Yes, sir. 6 MR. THOMAS TOMB: -- just to 7 clarify. My understanding from what you said 8 to Mr. Saseen, you only have water scrubbers as 9 control system. 10 MR. GLENN PIERSON: On the face 11 equipment. 12 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Is there any other 13 control technology used for diesel particulate 14 in your mine that you know of? 15 MR. GLENN PIERSON: We have a dry- 16 filter system, but not on the face equipment. 17 It's just a regular filter. 18 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Paper filter? 19 MR. GLENN PIERSON: Yes, sir. 20 MR. THOMAS TOMB: How many pieces of 21 equipment are equipped with that? 22 MR. GLENN PIERSON: It's mostly the 23 diesel locomotives and probably half a dozen or 21 1 so. 2 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Thank you. 3 MR. GLENN PIERSON: Thank you. 4 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Our next presenter 5 will be Mr. Woods: 6 MR. JAMES WOODS: Good morning. 7 James Woods, J-a-m-e-s W-o-o-d-s, UMWA local 8 1928. 9 I, like Glenn, have been to several 10 of diesel hearings that MSHA has held across 11 the country in the 90s. We lobbied for diesel 12 regs; MSHA did give us a few regs that helped 13 miners over the country. 14 As far as the proposed rule, MSHA's 15 preamble to the proposed rule indicates that a 16 total of 3,000 pieces of equipment, diesel 17 equipment, operates in underground coal mines 18 today. Out of those 3,000 pieces of diesel 19 equipment, approximately 500 pieces are in-by 20 equipment, approximately 500 pieces are labeled 21 as heavy duty. 22 This leaves a total of 2,000 pieces 23 of equipment -- or two-thirds of the amount -- 22 1 excuse me -- not -- excuse me -- that's not 2 considered in the rule. This means that people 3 like myself will be exposed to diesel 4 particulate matter of approximately 2,000 5 pieces of equipment, if this equipment is 6 permitted to operate without filters. 7 This is like the Government's attempt 8 to limit harmful and dangerous emissions in the 9 air. The only difference is we can't buy 10 emission credits. The only thing you're 11 allowing them to do is change the light duty, 12 heavy duty, or inby on the machines. If this 13 rule is adopted as proposed by MSHA, then that 14 means we will have approximately 2,000 pieces 15 of equipment in the country today that's 16 labeled light duty, that wouldn't need any kind 17 of filtration on them at all. 18 One of our fears, and there are many, 19 is that exposure to diesel exhaust will lead to 20 the next black-lung epidemic. We've been 21 working in Alabama for the last 25 years with 22 diesel-powered equipment. We've been asking 23 MSHA for the last 20 years, that I know of, to 23 1 help us out, to give our people some way that 2 we can live with underground diesel-powered 3 equipment. 4 Twenty-five years later, here we are 5 proposing a proposed rule that's only going to 6 address, as I mentioned before, 1,000 pieces of 7 equipment out of approximately 3,000 pieces, 8 and that's to date, and they're still adding 9 up. 10 I work for Jim Walter Number 3 11 Mines. At Jim Walter Number 3 Mine, there are 12 approximately 30 pieces of what MSHA would call 13 light-duty equipment in underground coal mine. 14 Excuse me. Some of your own test an analysis 15 of underground coal mines that have diesel- 16 powered equipment have -- the analysis prove 17 that when exposed to just half of the dose 18 that's actually found that the mine air, some 19 studies go as far as showing 900 out of 1,000 20 coal mines in a health risk. 21 In 1996, UMW, AMAX (phonetic) Coal 22 Company, the Coal Association, and the Bureau 23 of Deep Mine Safety, along with several other 24 1 people, reached an agreement on regulation for 2 the use of diesel-powered equipment in 3 Pennsylvania. 4 The question to the Panel I have: If 5 Pennsylvania can adopt regulations that the 6 majority of the people agree protects coal 7 miners, reduces their risk of diesel emission, 8 why can't Alabama and the rest of the country? 9 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Thank you very 10 much. State your name for the reporter. 11 MR. RONALD FORD: My name is Ronald 12 Ford. Mr. Woods -- 13 MR. JAMES WOODS: Uh-huh (yes). 14 MR. RONALD FORD: -- at the Jim 15 Walter Number 3 Mine, you said you had 30 16 pieces of light-duty equipment. Do you know 17 about the total number of diesel pieces that 18 you have? 19 MR. JAMES WOODS: The total number of 20 -- as MSHA propose as light duty. 21 MR. RONALD FORD: No. Total -- 22 MR. JAMES WOODS: The total number of 23 diesel-powered equipment that's on the ground? 25 1 MR. RONALD FORD: Yes. 2 MR. JAMES WOODS: No, sir, I don't 3 have a total number of that, but there are 4 many. We operate solely on the diesel-powered 5 equipment for coal hauling, track hauling. 6 MR. RONALD FORD: Can you give us 7 some examples of how this light-duty equipment, 8 these 30 pieces, present problems to the miners 9 in the mine? What type of equipment this is 10 and what are the problems that you're facing 11 with it? 12 MR. JAMES WOODS: Sure. 13 Approximately, at Number 3 -- and I can only 14 speak for Number 3 -- approximately 25 pieces 15 are manbuggies, manhaulers. We have Low Tracs, 16 what we call Low Tracs -- in the industry, I 17 don't know what they call them, but they're Low 18 Tracs, something like forklifts, where you 19 unload material with. 20 Also Number 3 Mine is on the 1105 and 21 the 326 Petition that allows better intake 22 air. Our primary intake is traffic, where all 23 the diesel equipment runs; that intake runs 26 1 directly into the face. You've got some 2 sections with as many as four diesel ramcars on 3 them, running at all times, as my brother 4 stated. Along with the intake air -- and these 5 diesel emissions from the manbuses, any piece 6 of equipment that MSHA has labeled outby or 7 light duty, those emissions come directly to 8 the face area. If that answers your question. 9 MR. RONALD FORD: So, some of the 10 light-duty equipment is not transporting rock 11 or coal, but it may be transporting equipment 12 that is very heavy, therefore, is under heavy 13 load. 14 MR. JAMES WOODS: Well, I think those 15 would be motors that I would guess would follow 16 under the heavy-duty definition that MSHA has 17 prescribed as. 18 MR. RONALD FORD: Thank you. 19 MR. BOB HANEY: Bob Haney. Mr. 20 Woods, the previous speaker said that you have 21 several pieces of equipment with dry-filtration 22 systems at your mine. 23 MR. JAMES WOODS: Uh-huh (yes). 27 1 MR. BOB HANEY: Do you know how long 2 the filters last on those systems before they 3 have to be changed? 4 MR. JAMES WOODS: No, I don't. No, I 5 don't. I would hate to try to speculate on 6 that, because I'm not in that particular frame 7 of checking that, but -- I couldn't say. 8 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Thomas Tomb. I 9 have a couple of questions. On your 10 manbuggies, you said you have 25 of them that 11 operate. 12 MR. JAMES WOODS: Approximately, 25 13 manbuses. 14 MR. THOMAS TOMB: How are they used? 15 Are they running most of the time? During a 16 shift? Do they run two hours out of a shift? 17 Or do you have any kind of an estimation on 18 that? 19 MR. JAMES WOODS: It's -- it's pretty 20 much hard to say. They run -- they're 21 manhaulers, they haul the crews into the 22 section, but also they are used to bring 23 supplies in from the kickbacks along the 28 1 section track, pushing cars in to the end of 2 the track to be unloaded. I think they are 3 rated at something like a five ton locomotive. 4 So, in the definition in the proposed rule, you 5 could use those, as prescribed, as light duty 6 to push heavy loads, and they wouldn't have to 7 come under the proposed rule. 8 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Do they get used a 9 lot during the shift? 10 MR. JAMES WOODS: Sure. 11 MR. THOMAS TOMB: All of them are 12 running. 13 MR. JAMES WOODS: Now, all of them 14 do. Not run at the same time. You probably 15 wouldn't have that, but you have a significant 16 amount of equipment on the track all during the 17 8-hour period. Sure. 18 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Do you have any 19 knowledge of the maintenance program of the 20 equipment on your mines? Is there a regular 21 maintenance program performed on it? 22 MR. JAMES WOODS: We do have a 23 maintenance program, but I couldn't specify. 29 1 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Okay. Thank you 2 very much. 3 Our next presenter will be Mr. 4 Sawyer: 5 MR. WILLIAM SAWYER: William Sawyer, 6 S-a-w-y-e-r, Hacksaw. 7 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Pardon? 8 MR. WILLIAM SAWYER: Hacksaw is what 9 they call me. Everybody knows me by it. 10 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Okay. 11 MR. WILLIAM SAWYER: I have a few 12 questions, and I'm familiar with the two guys 13 that's already spoke here, because I worked in 14 their mines some. But I have questions and 15 then maybe a few comments. But one is the 16 concern for the diesel emissions particulate 17 that are in neutral entries where you have 18 outby equipment both heavy and light duty 19 running and there's little to no ventilation. 20 And, as our brothers from Jim Walter, 21 they have intake air or theirs. All right. On 22 our sections we go into, there's intake air on 23 ours, so, you know, we know in November '99, 30 1 that the vent regs on diesel will pick up 2 ventilation for any equipment coming in, 3 staying in prolonged period of time on the 4 sections, that's intake air. 5 But my question is: Have y'all 6 considered about neutral entries where your 7 belt and tractors are in adjacent entries and 8 they're not separated and they're running 9 pretty much continuously, heavy, which is our 10 motors pulling longhaul material, or, you know, 11 heavy stuff; add a little parts and jeeps -- 12 and electricians use two jeeps, and such as 13 that. 14 Okay. Back in the '90s, when they 15 were talking about those hearings, there was a 16 Dr. Cantrell that was doing test on diesel. 17 From what I understood then, and I still don't 18 get too many good answers about it -- coal dust 19 particles and diesel particulate have a 20 tendency to combine. All right. When you're 21 sampling, do y'all have an adequate means to 22 separate those two, because both of them is 23 really a concern to miners, because both of 31 1 them cause lung disease? 2 And in that same scenario, when 3 you're checking for that 95 percent free, and 4 that's what it's boiling down to, can you 5 separate them to see which is which? 6 Also -- oh, I left my glasses back 7 there. I can't read my own writing. We have 8 the wetbed-scrubber system on our ramcars. We 9 got into this -- we've had diesels probably 10 longer than my brothers here, except maybe 11 Number 3 -- and we have a paper filter plus -- 12 it's on the outby side of our wetbed scrubber. 13 They help. You know, it's obvious from the 14 man's reaction they help. But how, as me, 15 Hacksaw, a safety committeeman, know how much 16 particulate is being put out. 17 You know, what tests are being used, 18 which we do our PPM test regular. We even went 19 into the PPM test on outby light and heavy, 20 we're doing it now, so we won't get caught in 21 November '99, not doing it. And we know what 22 they're putting out, and we're observing the 23 engine, and when they start reaching a 32 1 threshold that's concerned to us, the company 2 changes them out. They do do maintenance on 3 them continually on the wetbed scrubber. 4 The filters, I'll tell you about the 5 filters, and our safety rep here knows a whole 6 lot more about them. But when we started off 7 with them, they guaranteed three shifts; 8 wouldn't do it. Then they said two shifts; a 9 little bit better, but not good enough. We've 10 even tried to recycle them; take them out, 11 clean them, bring them back in; no good. So, 12 now we change them each shift, each eight-hour 13 shift. And it does help. 14 But still how much particulate is 15 being out. We know what the manufactures told 16 us the filters would do theirself, and we know 17 the scrubbers, the wetbed scrubbers -- I 18 believe back then Jeff was at the meeting. I 19 believe when the wetbed scrubber comes off the 20 production line and it has totally been covered 21 in maintenance, it is around a 90, 95 percent 22 particulate-free system, but it has to be 23 continually maintained in that condition or it 33 1 starts dropping. 2 Okay. Back to the same question: 3 How do I know how much particulate is coming 4 out? What tests are available? What machines 5 or testing equipment? And I know Dr. Cantrell 6 was running tests on ramcar operators at that 7 particular time, and he was running it strictly 8 on them, and my question was: How about the 9 men that are on the face and the particulate 10 off these ramcars is covering the pin crew, the 11 scoop crew, and everybody, but they were 12 testing just operators, which run away from the 13 emissions part time. Now, under the new regs, 14 we take check point. At the loading point that 15 diesel is setting under a load, unloading, and 16 also on our return where everything on the 17 section is coming off. That's a little bit 18 better than it was back in the '90s. 19 This is just questions on the 20 particulate, and if y'all could enlighten me a 21 little bit, I'd thank you. 22 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Okay. Thank you. 23 Any questions? 34 1 I'll just go ahead and address your 2 questions. I'm not sure I remember all of your 3 questions. I think the main pertinent question 4 was -- 5 MR. WILLIAM SAWYER: The separation. 6 MR. THOMAS TOMB: The mix of coal 7 dust and diesel particulate I think was your 8 main question. 9 This rule that requires filters is 10 going to reduce the amount of diesel 11 particulate coming out. The test would be 12 performed in a laboratory setting. It wouldn't 13 be performed underground. So, the efficiency 14 that you get is going to remove the diesel 15 particulate. 16 Now, for every residual diesel 17 particulate, the five percent that would still 18 be coming out, would still be mixed with the 19 coal dust in the environment, and it would be 20 sampled. As an example, if you did a 21 respirable dust sample for coal mine dust 22 exposure, you would get both -- that diesel 23 part would be included in your respirable dust 35 1 sample. 2 MR. WILLIAM SAWYER: That's what we 3 get now. 4 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Okay, yes, that's 5 right. So, I don't know if that really answers 6 your question. But you would be separating it 7 underground from what I thought you're question 8 was. 9 MR. WILLIAM SAWYER: It would 10 strictly be in the laboratory to separate and 11 determine which coal -- 12 MR. THOMAS TOMB: No separation. 13 It's just going to be how much is removed from 14 the exhaust. Okay? That's what it would be. 15 MR. WILLIAM SAWYER: The second one 16 is about the equipment; whether heavy outby or 17 light duty outby in neutral entries where there 18 is very little ventilation. You know, they're 19 running pretty consistent in there, and you do 20 have a buildup, even if you get the equipment 21 at it's best at 95 percent. They stay in these 22 areas for long periods of time, and is there 23 going to be some regulation that will improve 36 1 the ventilation. I know there's going to be to 2 improve the engines. 3 MR. THOMAS TOMB: That's addressed 4 in the diesel safety rule. And I believe those 5 regulations go into affect next year, requiring 6 specify ventilation. 7 MR. WILLIAM SAWYER: For the proposed 8 engine -- 9 MR. THOMAS TOMB: For the engine, 10 yes, and it would cover the neutrals also. 11 Thank you very much for your comments 12 and questions. 13 Our next presenter will be Mr. Caply: 14 Did I pronounce that correctly? 15 MR. DENNY CAPLEY: Yes. My first is 16 Denny, D-e-n-n-y; second name is Capley, 17 C-a-p-l-e-y. I belong to local 2245, United 18 Mine Workers of America, Woodville, Alabama. 19 I brought my glasses with me and now 20 I got to find them. I work at Jim Walter 21 Number 4 Mine underground. 22 My job is driving a diesel engine 23 ramcar. On July -- in July of 1993, I was 37 1 exposed to hot disease exhaust fumes while 2 riding a mantrip from the bottom to section 3 3 in the west part of the mine. As a result of 4 my exposure to the hot diesel exhaust fumes, I 5 developed pneumonia and had a fever to reach 6 102. 7 Today a have a hacking cough on many 8 occasions, and approximately 18 months ago, 9 X-ray showed that I have a spot on one of my 10 lungs. And I got wrote here: Recent studies 11 have found that 900 out of 1,000 miners could 12 get lung cancer from diesel particulate 13 exposure. 14 I think it is essential that a 15 filtration system capable of removing, on the 16 average, of at least 95 percent of diesel 17 particulate matter by mass be phased in as soon 18 as possible on all underground diesel-powered 19 machines. 20 Thank you. 21 MR. THOMAS TOMB: I'm trying to make 22 some notes here. Any questions. 23 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Sir, does your 38 1 ramcar have any filtration systems on it now? 2 MR. DENNY CAPLEY: Yes. But don't 3 forget, I was on a mantrip when this exposure 4 to the hot diesel exhaust fumes came -- I was 5 driving from the bottom going to our section. 6 I just want to make sure you understood. 7 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Right. Your 8 ramcar has a wet scrubber system on it? 9 MR. DENNY CAPLEY: Yes. 10 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: And it has the 11 filter added on downstream; correct, the paper 12 filter? 13 MR. DENNY CAPLEY: Don't have. 14 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: I'm sorry. 15 MR. DENNY CAPLEY: Don't have a 16 filter. 17 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: It does not have a 18 filter, a paper filter? 19 MR. DENNY CAPLEY: No. 20 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Okay. Thank you. 21 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Mr. Caply, was 22 this exposure, was this like a one-time 23 exposure, or was this like over a week or a 39 1 month or? 2 MR. DENNY CAPLEY: This particular 3 time when I got -- overcome with these fumes, 4 it was later determined, I think, that there 5 was a leak in the exhaust system. So, it was a 6 one time -- 7 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Exposure that this 8 happened. 9 MR. DENNY CAPLEY: -- exposure and I 10 got sick on it. 11 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Do you know if, in 12 your mine, maintenance is performed on your 13 diesel equipment? Do they have a good 14 maintenance program? 15 MR. DENNY CAPLEY: It's better now 16 than it has been, but there's still some room 17 for improvement. 18 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Any other 19 questions? Thank you very much. Excuse me for 20 taking some time to make some notes. 21 Our next presenter will be Mr. 22 Brackner: 23 MR. JIM BRACKNER: I'm Jim Brackner, 40 1 J-i-m B-r-a-c-k-n-e-r. I'm a safety 2 committeemen of the United Mine Workers of 3 America, local 2405; employee at Jim Walter 4 Number 4 Mine. 5 We received our first piece of diesel 6 equipment in the mid-80s. Since then, we've -- 7 well, currently we have 63 pieces of 8 underground diesel equipment. We have numerous 9 complaints from miners about the equipments 10 smoking excessively. You've already heard 11 we've had a member that's been overexposed to 12 diesel exhaust. 13 According to MSHA's proposed rule, 14 over half of our equipment is going to be 15 covered. The proposed rule, to me, is good, 16 but it falls short of providing our miners with 17 protection they deserve. 18 We'd like to see the DPM filters on 19 all of the diesel equipment: heavy duty and 20 light duty. We don't, we don't want to have 21 anybody else have the same problems that Mr. 22 Capley has had, on these strong regulations. 23 I expect the coal operators to 41 1 testify that they can control DPM through the 2 use of ventilation. I can't see that 3 happening. We get citation upon citation now 4 where we don't have adequate ventilation 5 underground in our mine. 6 I'm afraid if we go to something like 7 that, that, you know, we will end up with 8 something similar to the respirable dust 9 sampler. That on days that the equipment is 10 to be sampled, those days will be different 11 from normal operating days, which is the way it 12 is with a lot of respirable dust sample. 13 The best protection for miners, to 14 us, would be for each and every piece of diesel 15 equipment underground to be filtered. 16 That's all. 17 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Any questions? 18 MR. BOB HANEY: Yes. How much 19 airflow do you typically have on a section? 20 MR. JIM BRACKNER: It varies; 21 anywhere from 30,000 to 60-70,000. 22 MR. BOB HANEY: Okay. Thank you. 23 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Jon. 42 1 MR. JON KOGUT: I think you said that 2 you, as the safety committeeman, received 3 complaints of excessive smoke. Can you expand 4 on that a little bit and give me some idea how 5 frequently you receive complaints? And you're 6 talking about visible black smoke. 7 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Visible smoke, 8 yes. 9 MR. JOHN KOGUT: How often do you get 10 complaints like that? 11 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Very often. It's 12 nothing unusual to receive a complaint every 13 day of some piece of equipment smoking: 14 burning their eyes, causing cough, having sore 15 throat. 16 MR. JON KOGUT: Do people normally 17 complain when there is any visible smoke or 18 just, in their opinion, when the smoke is 19 excessive -- you used the word "excessive"? 20 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Our people aren't 21 bad to complain about just any little bit of 22 smoke. You know, normally when they complain, 23 it's excessive. 43 1 MR. JON KOGUT: So, what, on the 2 average, how many complaints would you say you 3 get a week? 4 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Five or six. 5 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Do you have a 6 maintenance program for the equipment in your 7 mine? 8 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Yes, we do. 9 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Even after the 10 equipment is maintained, do you know whether 11 there is still black smoke? 12 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Yes, sir. As a 13 matter of fact, a lot of times after it's sent 14 outside for reworking, sent back underground, 15 that's when we have our biggest problem. 16 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Okay. How many 17 pieces of equipment in your mine currently are 18 filtered? 19 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Only on our 20 ramcars, which is about -- there's probably 21 roughly 28, 29 of those, I guess. No, there's 22 less than -- there's 18. 23 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Do you have another 44 1 question, Bob? 2 MR. BOB HANEY: Yes. That 30 to 3 -70,000 CFM is that on each side of the 4 section, so you have between 60 and -140,000 on 5 section. 6 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Yes. 7 MR. BOB HANEY: How many ramcars do 8 you particularly run? 9 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Anywhere from two 10 to four. 11 MR. BOB HANEY: And they're the -- 12 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Jeffrey. 13 MR. BOB HANEY: Jeffrey 4110? 14 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Yes, sir. 15 MR. BOB HANEY: The last speaker said 16 you didn't have filters on your ramcars. 17 MR. JIM BRACKNER: We have a wet 18 scrubber. 19 MR. BOB HANEY: Well, the wet 20 scrubber is all that you have. 21 MR. THOMAS TOMB: That's all you have 22 is just the wet scrubber? 23 MR. JIM BRACKNER: That's right. 45 1 MR. BOB HANEY: You don't have paper 2 filters on them? 3 MR. JIM BRACKNER: As far as I know 4 we don't. 5 MR. BOB HANEY: Okay. Thank you. 6 MR. JIM BRACKNER: While we're at it, 7 I'd like to ask a question also. Diesel 8 locomotives, would that be considered heavy 9 duty or light-duty equipment? 10 MR. BOB HANEY: Is it pushing loads 11 of coal? 12 MR. JIM BRACKNER: No. Long-haul 13 equipment. 14 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Heavy duty. 15 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Thank you. 16 MR. THOMAS TOMB: One more question, 17 sir. Mr. Saseen. 18 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Is your fleet of 19 diesel relatively older fleet or newer fleet or 20 mixed? 21 MR. JIM BRACKNER: It's mixed. 22 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Mixed? 23 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Yes. 46 1 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: The complaints 2 you get on the black smoke, smoke coming from 3 them, is that generally more in the ramcars or 4 your light-duty type of equipment? 5 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Mostly from the 6 manbuses and the Eimco diesel locomotive. 7 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Do you know what 8 kind of mantrips those are? Automotive pick-up 9 trucks or are they like AL or ALE? 10 MR. JIM BRACKNER: They're rated the 11 5 ton locomotive, similar, I guess, to what Mr. 12 Woods has in his mine. 13 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: So, most of the 14 complaints are coming from the light duty? 15 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Well, from the 16 Eimco diesel locomotive, which you said was 17 considered heavy duty also. That's where 18 probably we receive most of the complaints. 19 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Okay. Thank you. 20 MR. WILLIAM McKINNEY: One more 21 question, if you don't mind. William McKinney. 22 I assume from the comment about the 23 locomotives that you do have a longwall at your 47 1 mine? 2 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Yes, sir. Two of 3 them. 4 MR. WILLIAM McKINNEY: Do you see 5 more of a problem with the diesel equipment 6 when you're setting up along a longwall section 7 or when you're recovering a longwall section or 8 are those instances of a concern to y'all? 9 MR. JIM BRACKNER: Well, we see 10 problems on a regular basis. Our problems are 11 not confined to one time. The first time when 12 a longwall is being set up or removed, we have 13 problems with our equipment smoking regularly. 14 MR. WILLIAM McKINNEY: Thank you. 15 MR. THOMAS TOMB: If we have to call 16 you back more than seven times, we give you a 17 seat at the table. 18 Thank you very much for your 19 comments. 20 Our next presenter will be Mr. -- 21 C-a-g -- 22 MR. JEFFREY DUNCAN: Cagle. 23 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Cagle. I'm sorry. 48 1 I'll let you spell it. 2 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE. Good morning. 3 My name Dwight Cagle, UMWA, local 2397, Jim 4 Walter Number 7. D-w-i-g-h-t C-a-g-l-e. I'm 5 also a safety member. 6 At our mine, we have 12 to 15 7 ramcars, Deutz MWM 916 engines in them. Also 8 8 to 10 of these cars are running around the 9 clock, six to seven days a week. We also have, 10 as far as the Low Trac that he was talking 11 about, we carry the Isuzu C242 cylinder 56 12 horsepower, they're outback, and they're 13 equipped with catalytic converters, which they 14 may take out some particulates, but they put 15 out the black smoke, just like the ramcars do. 16 Now, our ramcars are equipped with 17 the wet scrubber. Also in our mines we have 18 seven Brookville locomotives 413 Deutz engine, 19 2 Eimcos with Deutz engines; also we have one 20 diesel piner (phonetic), two diesel air 21 compressor. 22 And getting back to the longwall 23 move, generally longwall move, we have four to 49 1 six locomotives running around the clock all in 2 shifts in the same split of air. And this is 3 around the clock until the wall is set up. We 4 have a total of about 35 diesel pieces at our 5 mine. 6 Our evidence shows that the approval 7 plate on this equipment for the particulate is 8 4,000 SI -- and versus 1,500 for -- that's for 9 one motor. This is not even -- 10 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Could you repeat, 11 please? 12 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: Sir? 13 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Could you just 14 repeat what you said? 15 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: The approval plate 16 on these engines is 4,000, is proved at 4,000 17 CFM -- 18 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Okay. 19 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: Okay. And to get 20 the particulate -- 21 MR. THOMAS TOMB: The particulate 22 index is -- 23 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: Right, 1,500 50 1 that's a little over twice as much CFM on that. 2 And during these longwall move -- this don't 3 even count the manbuses and jeeps in the same 4 split of air. I have worked on these longwall 5 moves and a lot of our people has complained of 6 sever headaches, and you can taste the diesel 7 and the soot. 8 Also in our mines when we get close 9 to running out of space for a wall, they turn 10 our section into two-barrel entries, which is 11 850 foot long to 1,000 foot long. And you're 12 talking about putting two and three ramcars 13 running 8-, 10-, 12-, 16-hour shifts. They put 14 out a lot of emissions. 15 One car we had a lot of trouble with 16 in this two-barrel entry that, you know, we 17 have a pretty good maintenance program on ours; 18 we change our filters weekly, air filters and 19 all, we do CO test, but I look through our 20 record books where we register this, and either 21 our record keeping is not good or we are 22 falling back on our checking, may be it's 23 because we only have one CO checker, and most 51 1 of the time the battery down is on it and you 2 have to have it charged. It's a carbon 3 monoxide checker Model 262 with a pump SP202. 4 Manbuses, we are assigned manbuses 5 most of the time they are -- it's a poor 6 maintenance program on it. They want the 7 section electrician to take care of them. They 8 send them outside, but you may get one number 9 bus today and tomorrow you may get another 10 number and you don't know what's been done on 11 it. Poor record keeping on those. 12 So at our mine, like I said, we -- 13 one ramcar, like I was talking about, CO 14 checking on it was 1,200 then it got on up to 15 2,000, and 2,500 you couldn't see a ramcar at 16 2,500 because of smoke emissions. 17 That's all I got. 18 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Okay. Thank you 19 very much. Any questions. 20 MR. RONALD FORD: Mr. Cagle, you've 21 mentioned problems with the mobile equipment, 22 diesel-powered equipment. Have you had any 23 problems with the two pieces of diesel air 52 1 compressors and, if so, can you tell us what 2 they were? 3 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: Well, in our 4 mines, we have to keep someone with these air 5 compressors, you know. I think they're bought 6 out in Utah. We've got water hooked up to them 7 for sprinkling, filters, and maintenance on 8 them. Usually, they are just sent all over the 9 mines, and, you know, they send them out, air 10 filters never get changed; there's no kind of 11 scrubber on those, as far emissions. 12 MR. RONALD FORD: Has anybody 13 complained of any problems with the air 14 compressors -- 15 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: Yes. We -- 16 MR. RONALD FORD: -- or being around 17 them? 18 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: We have severe 19 headaches. 20 MR. RONALD FORD: Thank you. 21 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Any other questions? 22 MR. BOB HANEY: Mr. Cagle, how much 23 airflow do you have on your sections at Jim 53 1 Walter Number 7? 2 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: Minimum 20,000. 3 Usually, we get 25, -30,000. 4 MR. BOB HANEY: And that's in each 5 side of the section? 6 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: Yes. 7 MR. BOB HANEY: Thank you. 8 MS. SANDRA WESDOCK: Mr. Cagle, I 9 have one question, and then I'll let you sit 10 down. 11 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: Okay. 12 MS. SANDRA WESDOCK: You mentioned in 13 your testimony that the record keeping was 14 poor. 15 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: Yes, ma'am. 16 MS. SANDRA WESDOCK: Can you expand a 17 little bit on that? Is that there is missing 18 information, or that the information that is 19 recorded is inadequate? I mean, could you 20 explain a little bit? 21 MR. JAMES WOODS: Okay. We have what 22 you call a permissibility book that we register 23 our CO checking, what it reads on the gauge and 54 1 our CO test. I reviewed the books this week, 2 and a lot of them hasn't been put in. I don't 3 know if they tested them and didn't put them in 4 or what, but it's a violation of the law. And 5 I talked to our coordinators and they're 6 supposed to get on top of it. 7 And another problem with the CO 8 checker, it's readily available, but usually 9 it's dead. If that answers your questions. 10 MS. SANDRA WESDOCK: Thank you. 11 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Who's responsible 12 for making those checks in your mine? 13 MR. DWIGHT CAGLE: Usually, section 14 electricians. 15 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Section 16 electricians. Thank you. 17 Our next presenter will be Mr. 18 Parker. 19 MR. RICKY PARKER: Good morning. 20 My name is Ricky Parker, R-i-c-k-y P-a-r-k-e-r. 21 I'm a member of the UMWA, local 2368, Chairman 22 of the Safety Committee, and I've worked at Jim 23 Walter Number 5 Mine, for approximately 19 55 1 years. 2 In the 19 years that I have worked at 3 that mine, I have been a miner for 4 approximately 15 years of my job there. After 5 working on a mine, I have since then become a 6 ramcar operator. At our mine we have 7 approximately 32 pieces of equipment, 8 diesel-powered equipment with our diesel 9 ramcars on the face being Jeffrey 4110, which 10 have only a wetbed scrubber system, as far as 11 exhaust. We have approximately five 12 diesel-powered locomotives outby; five being 13 Eimco, one being Brookville. And we have 11 14 diesel-powered mantrips at that mine. 15 On many occasions, we have been cited 16 on our mantrips, diesel-powered mantrips, which 17 are Hagar mantrips, exhaust pipes not being 18 hooked up, broken into, what have you. We have 19 been cited at our mine: scrub systems on our 20 ramcars being jumped out, especially the Wagner 21 type. We have some Wagner type -- excuse me, 22 I didn't mention that -- Wagner diesel 23 ramcars. 56 1 In 1993, we had an explosion in our 2 mine, which was not in any extent as to what 3 caused the explosion. But after the 4 investigation, it was found that two of the 5 scrubber systems on two of the ramcars on that 6 section was jumped out. Being a mine operator 7 for that many years, I was at that mine when we 8 totally ran electric cars, and I saw the diesel 9 ramcars come into place at that mine, I have 10 experienced effects of the sickness, burning of 11 the eyes when the diesel equipment come to the 12 face. 13 Being a ramcar operator now myself, I 14 have seen -- at our mine we have some of the 15 newest equipment, with the Jeffrey 4110 16 ramcars, which is a far superior piece of 17 equipment than the Wagner that we used 20 years 18 at that mine. But still in conjunction with 19 that equipment as new as it is, there are still 20 many problems with this ramcar due to us 21 totally relying on ventilation to dilute the 22 diesel particulate matter, to render in 23 harmless. 57 1 When we take our test on the feeder, 2 we backup on the feeder and start to dump your 3 load, and you have your foreman in front with a 4 410 spotter taking a CO check and a NO2 check. 5 The only time that you have to report any 6 problems is if you find a problem with that, 7 you know, with your examination of the 8 spotter. 9 We feel that is not a reliable way to 10 exam this equipment, because we are underneath 11 the mine getting a load, the exhaust is 12 therefore being turned around, coming straight 13 on you, in your face. 14 We have a mine operator at that mine 15 that can take off two weeks for vacation -- and 16 he's had respiratory problems, after equipment, 17 diesel equipment was brought into that line -- 18 he can take off for two weeks vacation, come 19 back -- after that two weeks, he felt pretty 20 good, his respiratory problems would straighten 21 up, but at the very instant that he gets back 22 in the face of diesel-powered equipment, it 23 starts up again, his respiratory problems will 58 1 flare up again, coughing, sore throat, numerous 2 problems in his chest. 3 With the reports that the test that's 4 been conducting by NIOSH, where it states that 5 900 out of 1,000 miners can come down with lung 6 cancer for exposure to diesel particulate 7 matter, and due to the years of experience that 8 I've had being inby on face areas, running 9 diesel ramcar, it really frightens me as a 10 person that has been there in the face most of 11 the time, being exposed to the DPM. 12 It wasn't a short period of time ago 13 that we had an inspector riding a manbus in on 14 our mainline track that cited the company due 15 to the smoke that was coming off of that diesel 16 mantrip. We have had numerous citations issued 17 in our mine because of maintenance, lack of 18 maintenance. We've had people come into the 19 safety office, our brothers and sisters, 20 complain of sore throats, burning of the eyes, 21 breathing problems, where our diesel 22 locomotives outby have been hauling supplies, 23 60 ton continuous miners, where it takes two -- 59 1 at least two if not three diesel locomotives to 2 push it in our mine on our track system. We 3 have a plan where we can take extended cuts 4 from our mine, which is 25 foot. When you have 5 two, three, pieces of diesel-powered equipment 6 running, I mean, wide-open as you can, trying 7 to produce as much coal as you can. 8 It is mind-boggling also in 9 conjunction with your outby piece of equipment 10 smoking come in on people on face; it's 11 mind-boggling how we cannot -- we haven't in 12 the past -- or not come up with a better 13 filtering system to render these diesel 14 particulates harmless on our people. 15 I commend the state of Pennsylvania 16 for going that extra step to protect their 17 miners underground and to take that extra step 18 to render this diesel particulate matter 19 harmless. 20 We -- all the testing that is being 21 done in California in the EPA and the type of 22 dry systems available, I would like to take 23 this moment to ask you to, please, initiate 60 1 this proposed rule as quick as possible, to 2 render this diesel particulate harmless for our 3 brothers and sisters underground. 4 That's all. 5 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Thank you, Mr. 6 Parker. Any questions? 7 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: You mentioned 8 your mantrip model type. 9 MR. RICKY PARKER: It's a Hagar 10 mantrip. 11 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Do you know what 12 type engine is in there? 13 MR. RICKY PARKER: Deutz. 14 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Deutz. Okay. 15 MR. BOB HANEY: You said you run two 16 to three ramcars on the section. 17 MR. RICKY PARKER: Yes, sir, 18 continuously. 19 MR. BOB HANEY: And do you know what 20 the air flow on your section is there at 21 Number -- 22 MR. RICKY PARKER: In our face areas, 23 sir, we are required to have at least 215 for 61 1 an extended cut. 2 MR. THOMAS TOMB: How much? 3 MR. RICKY PARKER: 21,500 CFP. 4 MR. BOB HANEY: That's at the end of 5 your -- 6 MR. RICKY PARKER: End of the line. 7 MR. BOB HANEY: Okay. 8 MR. RICKY PARKER: We sometimes have 9 in excess of that 26 to -30,000 with -- in the 10 last open crosscut 50 to -60,000. But in 11 conjunction with that, when you have three 12 diesel-powered locomotives outside in the outby 13 entries that's pushing an enormous amount of 14 weight, and you have manbuses that are 15 continuously running on our track with pumps 16 going to the different location, you have 17 foremen running in and out of the mine, you 18 have parts being transported continuously, 19 because that's a major -- that's our only 20 source of transportation is our track system. 21 And with all of that coming from outby onto the 22 sections, well, in conjunction with the 23 diesel-powered ramcars -- I've been on the 62 1 sections; I've seen the smoke come out of the 2 sections. People -- you know, I've been sick 3 before off of it. It's really scary and 4 something has got to be done or we're going to 5 have a bad case of a black-lung type epidemic 6 in this state. 7 MR. WILLIAM McKINNEY: I'm going to 8 assume you are using an exhaust, an wine 9 (phonetic) curtain on your face; right? 10 MR. RICKY PARKER: Yes, sir 11 MR. JON KOGUT: How many different 12 manbuses did you say you use at the mine? 13 MR. RICKY PARKER: We have 14 approximately 11 manbuses. 15 MR. JON KOGUT: And is there a 16 regular maintenance program? 17 MR. RICKY PARKER: Yes, sir. There 18 is a regular maintenance program. We have a 19 type of PM system that is to be gone over every 20 day on these manbuses and the locomotives. 21 MR. JON KOGUT: When you see the 22 visible smoke from the manbuses, do you see 23 that on all of the manbuses or just certain 63 1 ones. 2 MR. RICKY PARKER: Well, it's like 3 anything, when you have a new manbus come in, 4 you know, very little any hours on that engine, 5 it's going to be clear-burning motor. When you 6 crank the manbus up, you can see the puff of 7 black smoke come out the side of the mantrip. 8 When you crank up the diesel locomotives -- our 9 locomotives have no filter-type system on the 10 exhaust, the exhaust is straight from the motor 11 itself, and you'll see the black smoke come out 12 of it. And we may get so many hours on them 13 they won't start burning oil. 14 So, you know, we look forward to the 15 new diesel regs that are pertained to the outby 16 equipment. 17 MR. JON KOGUT: But specifically on 18 the manbuses -- I'm not sure I quite understood 19 your answer. Did you say that you see the 20 black smoke from all of them when you crank 21 them up? 22 MR. RICKY PARKER: Yes, sir. 23 Virtually, all of them when you crank them up. 64 1 Manbuses that have more hours on them than 2 others, you can see the smoke. That's one 3 reason we've been cited by MSHA is the smoke 4 that's being visible. 5 MR. JON KOGUT: Did you say that 6 you've only been cited once for that? 7 MR. RICKY PARKER: No, sir. Numerous 8 times. 9 MR. JON KOGUT: Specifically for -- 10 MR. RICKY PARKER: One, for instance, 11 when the inspector was riding the bus himself. 12 MR. JON KOGUT: I see. Did you see 13 any relationship between the maintenance that 14 is performed on these manbuses and the smoke 15 that's visible? 16 MR. RICKY PARKER: Yes, sir. On 17 numerous occasions, as being a safety 18 committeeman at that mine and chairman of the 19 safety committee, I have brought forth to the 20 attention of the company that there is a 21 problem with the manbus smoking, exhaust pipe 22 being broken away. They were supposed to 23 direct the exhaust pipe occupants of the 65 1 manbus. On many occasions, the lack of 2 maintenance has been a problem. Whereas, if a 3 machine is gone over every day, like it should 4 be, things will be noticed and the proper 5 attention should be diverted towards that 6 equipment, send it outside, get it corrected, 7 and get it back underground, so it's safe to 8 use underground. 9 MR. JON KOGUT: Are the manbuses used 10 for hauling equipment? Is that what it's used 11 for? 12 MR. RICKY PARKER: Manbuses primarily 13 are used to haul supplies, workers, small 14 pumps, stuff like that. 15 MS. SANDRA WESDOCK: Mr. Parker, how 16 many diesel mechanics do you have at the mine? 17 MR. RICKY PARKER: Well, ma'am, on a 18 routine basis, all of our diesel shop is 19 outside, we would have two on day shift. They 20 primarily work on diesel equipment on day shift 21 right now. And our mine runs 24 hours a day. 22 And that's one of the things that we brought to 23 the company's attention. There's no way that 66 1 they can maintain this equipment in a proper 2 fashion with the manpower available at that 3 mine. 4 MS. SANDRA WESDOCK: And what type of 5 training do they get to work on this diesel 6 equipment at your mine? 7 MR. RICKY PARKER: They are certified 8 by Jim Walter, as far as being trained. We 9 have a committeeman at our mine that hopefully 10 will get to speak here shortly that is 11 certified in diesel-powered equipment, and he 12 can hopefully enlighten you further. 13 MS. SANDRA WESDOCK: Thank you. 14 MR. RICKY PARKER: You're welcome. 15 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Sir, you 16 mentioned about CO and NO2 readings in the 17 feeder. 18 MR. RICKY PARKER: Yes, sir. 19 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Do you have any 20 idea what kind of levels are typically there 21 when you have your ramcars in that area. 22 MR. RICKY PARKER: The only time that 23 I can comment on, sir, is like when we do a 67 1 bimonthly inspection, and I take a reading 2 myself of that ramcar. Other than that, you 3 have a foreman that gets in front of the 4 machine and he's holding the instrument in 5 front of him -- and I have taken on occasion to 6 ask him what it is reading. And on occasion he 7 has acknowledged me, he'll show it me or tell 8 me what it is reading. Other than that, I 9 really can't say what is coming out of the 10 machine itself. 11 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: What kinds of 12 levels when he showed it to you? 13 MR. RICKY PARKER: Well, you know, 14 you have a warning level. When you get 50 of 15 CO, take it out of service or 5 NO2, and you 16 have a warning level which is 25 CO 2 and a 17 half, NO2. On occasions, I have seen the 18 warning level be invoked as far as 25 on the CO 19 and 2.5 on the NO2; other times I've seen, 20 especially in older ramcars, upwards over 40 21 PPM on the CO and upward levels of over two and 22 a half above the warning level on the NO2. 23 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Thank you. 68 1 MR. RICKY PARKER: You're welcome. 2 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Any other 3 questions? Thank you very much Mr. Parker. 4 Our next presenter Mr. Pate. I'm not 5 sure if I'm pronouncing it right. Jeffrey 6 Pate. 7 MR. JEFFREY PATE: I wish to pass at 8 this time after all of that. 9 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Okay. Did I 10 mispronounce it? 11 MR. JEFFREY PATE: It's Pate, 12 P-a-t-e. 13 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Oh, P-a-t-e. I'm 14 sorry. 15 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Excuse me, can I 16 take his place -- 17 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Sure. 18 MR. GARY TRAMELL: -- if he don't 19 want to. 20 MS. SANDRA WESDOCK: What's your 21 name? 22 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Gary Tramell. 23 MS. SANDRA WESDOCK: Can you spell 69 1 that, please? 2 MR. GARY TRAMELL: G-a-r-y 3 T-r-a-m-e-l-l. 4 My name is Gary Tramell, G-a-r-y 5 T-r-a-m-e-l-l, local 2368 safety committeeman. 6 I work at Jim Walter Number 5, Brookwood, 7 Alabama. 8 One of my main concerns is I read in 9 some of your literature about these 10 high-pressured mines, and I've been listening, 11 too; each one of have asked a question about 12 the velocity of how many -- could we fit the 13 air inby the diesel pieces of equipment. 14 At Number 5 Mines, we've got areas 15 that are called dead areas; there would be 16 little or no air. And these pieces of 17 equipment on sections when they are changing 18 and waiting on one to load up and pull out, 19 they sit in a dead area with the engine running 20 and there would be little to no air. And those 21 operators are getting the particulates there. 22 At Number 5 Mines, we're probably 23 unique because we've got a faulthill (phonetic) 70 1 that probably runs somewhere in the 2 neighborhood 1,500, 2,000 feet, and it's on a 3 steep grade. When you get two motors with five 4 cars of tons of materials and things going into 5 the mines, these motors -- I've been there and 6 I've seen it, they are trying to push as hard 7 as -- you know the little train that just keeps 8 on chugging -- well, these things are trying to 9 pull that hill, and they smoke and you can't 10 hardly see the next operator, which is about 11 five cars up. 12 Those engines go through a lot of 13 wear and tear there. It's really hard to keep 14 them up. 15 Just like Ricky told you, I am in 16 maintenance. And at Number 5 Mines, I'm 17 certified in diesel equipment. The outby 18 motors -- there's one outby electrician at our 19 mine, and his job is to take care of all of the 20 beltlines, do as much as he can on the outby 21 equipment, take care of all the pumps, just 22 numerous jobs, which really there's not enough 23 underground maintenance on these outby pieces 71 1 of equipment. 2 Just like I said, we try to work on 3 them, but we got to keep the mines running and 4 we got to keep that running. 5 As far as types of diesel fuels, we 6 had a problem -- and, you know, when we first 7 went into diesel -- it's been 15 years ago or 8 maybe 12 -- we had diesel fuels that wasn't 9 colored. In other words, they wasn't bygrad 10 grad A, grad B, onroad or offroad diesel fuels. 11 And what we was having was a lot of motormen 12 crying that the fumes burning them, a lot of 13 motorman getting sick -- because I've been 14 there and had other motorman coming to me and 15 telling me something is just wrong. 16 And what I was finding out at that 17 time was the people outside was getting mixed 18 up on what grad of fuel. They were sending a 19 lower grad fuel down underground, which it 20 should have been a higher grad fuel. And we've 21 got that straightened out. I hope, and I hope 22 we don't go back to it. But now we use 23 different colored mixtures in our diesel fuels 72 1 to make sure that it's adequate. 2 But there for a long time, we had 3 miners that were really complaining of sickness 4 and nose burns and eye burns. 5 And just like I said, when I was 6 certified, I had a one-week course at Jim 7 Walter Training Center. I think that's 8 supposed to be recertified effort once a year, 9 just like electrical retraining. And I haven't 10 been there to get that training again; it's 11 coming up soon. That's about the only question 12 I've got. 13 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Any questions? 14 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Yes, sir. When 15 the study of the mechanic -- like if you have 16 fuel pump problems on the engines, do you send 17 them out? Do they have a rep come in, or do 18 you try to do any of that work? 19 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Are you talking 20 about fuel pumps? 21 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: Fuel pumps. 22 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Most of the time 23 we will send them out. We've been trained to 73 1 do that, but with the extent of training that 2 we got -- you can go to the school and not 3 being a diesel mechanic -- I'm not a certified 4 diesel mechanic. I'm just trained in diesel 5 rigs and how to do the work on the underground 6 equipment. They did give us some training in 7 adjusting the burn, after-burn of an engine. 8 And just like I said, if you don't use it every 9 day, you lose it. 10 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: So, most of it -- 11 if there's problems you send -- 12 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Most of the time 13 we send it out. 14 MR. GEORGE SASEEN: -- send the 15 engines out? 16 MR. BOB HANEY: Bob Haney. The dead 17 area you mentioned is that along the big 18 crosscut, you said you run? 19 MR. GARY TRAMELL: That's on the main 20 intake track. 21 MR. BOB HANEY: On your sections, do 22 you have a big piller in the middle? 23 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Say that again. 74 1 MR. BOB HANEY: On the sections -- 2 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Yes. We have 3 large pillers that you get out of the way, so 4 the one that you're loading will come out. 5 MR. BOB HANEY: Right. While he's 6 sitting in that crosscut? 7 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Right. He'll sit 8 there with his motor running for when that one 9 passes him, and he gets back in against the 10 miners as quick as can. 11 MR. BOB HANEY: Thank you. 12 MR. THOMAS TOMB: How much time does 13 he usually sit there? 14 MR. GARY TRAMELL: It depends on -- a 15 lot of times a very short while, and then 16 sometimes a matter of 15 to 20 minutes. It's 17 according to if the miner gases out or they 18 have to extend the line -- 19 MR. THOMAS TOMB: If it's a long 20 period -- 21 MR. GARY TRAMELL: -- numerous 22 things. 23 MR. THOMAS TOMB: If it's a long 75 1 period of time, do they turn it off, turn the 2 machine off? 3 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Sometimes they 4 will, if they know what's happening. 5 Sometimes, you know, it's according to how 6 far back they are, they'll leave them running 7 until they say, Well, they're just not going to 8 come back, so then they will. It all depends 9 on if they're communicating with each other. 10 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Do they always stay 11 with the machine? 12 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Yes. They need 13 to. 14 MR. RONALD FORD: If someone 15 complains of black smoke coming out, do you go 16 out and check out the machine? 17 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Yes, sir. 18 MR. RONALD FORD: And what do you do? 19 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Well, what our 20 ramcars are equipped with is magnahelic 21 (phonetic) gauges; one for the intake, and one 22 for the exhaust. And, usually, if that 23 magnahelic gauge goes out of range, then that's 76 1 kind of a single that your filters or your 2 scrubbers are not doing it's job. 3 MR. RONALD FORD: Do you ever just 4 take the machine out of service, just because 5 it's got black smoke coming out of it? 6 MR. GARY TRAMELL: I'm not on the 7 section. I haven't worked sections in a long 8 time. But as far as the motorman and stuff, if 9 they complain about it enough, then the 10 supervisor might or he might not. You're 11 always short of equipment. And they'll try to 12 run that thing as much as they can. 13 MR. THOMAS TOMB: One other question. 14 Do you have any on your surface shops, in your 15 service shop area? Is it well ventilated or do 16 you have any problems with ventilation in that 17 area? 18 MR. GARY TRAMELL: It's open door. 19 It's got two big doors opened. And as far as 20 ventilation, I don't think there's any fans on 21 it, and I think when it gets winter time, 22 they're going to pull in them doors there. 23 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Well, does that 77 1 cause a problem? 2 MR. GARY TRAMELL: Myself, they 3 haven't complained to me, as a safety member. 4 I don't know if they've had problems. 5 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Do you work there, 6 in the shop? 7 MR. GARY TRAMELL: No, I don't. I 8 work underground. I'm an underground certified 9 electrician. 10 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Any other 11 questions? Thank you very much. What I'd like 12 to do now is take a 15-minute break. 13 14 (Whereupon a 15-minute recess was taken, 15 after which the following proceedings were 16 had:) 17 18 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Okay, if we could 19 get started again, please. 20 Our next presenter Mr. Sartain. 21 Chuck is going to go first. 22 Our next presenter is Chuck Stewart: 23 MR. CHUCK STEWART: Good morning. My 78 1 name is Chuck Stewart, C-h-u-c-k S-t-e-w-a-r-t. 2 I'm Mine Manager of Jim Walter Resources Number 3 7 Mine. I'm accompanied today by Dale Byram, 4 Manager of Safety; Larry Jordan, Coordinator of 5 Diesel Maintenance Training; Ted Sartain, 6 Senior Ventilation Engineer. We express our 7 gratitude to Ms. Jones and the Committee for 8 the opportunity to participate today in the 9 rule-making process. 10 We appear on behalf of Jim Walter 11 Resources, Incorporated, a subsidiary of Walter 12 Industries, which owns and operates four deep, 13 underground coal mines in west-central Alabama. 14 Jim Walter Resources produces approximately 15 eight million tons annually and employs around 16 2,000 people. 17 The four mines operate in the Blue 18 Creek seam and range in depth from 1,300 to 19 2,200 feet. 20 COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. My 21 battery is dead and my machine is not recording 22 the data. 23 MR. CHUCK STEWART: Where do you want 79 1 to start? 2 MR. THOMAS TOMB: Just start over 3 again. So, she will have a complete record. 4 MR. CHUCK STEWART: Mr. Chairman and 5 members of the committee, my name is Chuck 6 Stewart, C-h-u-c-k S-t-e-w-a-r-t. I'm the Mine 7 Manager of Jim Walter Resources, Number 7 Mine. 8 I'm accompanied today by Dale Byram, Manager of 9 Safety; Larry Jordan, Coordinator of Diesel 10 Maintenance Training; and Ted Sartain, Senior 11 Ventilation Engineer. We express our gratitude 12 to Ms. Jones and the Committee for the 13 opportunity to participate today in the rule- 14 making process. 15 We appear on behalf of Jim Walter 16 Resources, Incorporated, a subsidiary of Walter 17 Industries, which owns and operates four deep 18 underground coal mines in west-central 19 Alabama. Jim Walter Resources produces 20 approximately eight million tons annually and 21 employs around 2,000 people. 22 The four mines operate in the Blue 23 Creek seam and range in depth from 1,300 feet 80 1 to 2,200 feet deep. The coal is soft, highly 2 fractured and very gassy. Therefore, 3 ventilation is a crucial aspect of our daily 4 operations. In fact, fresh air enters each of 5 our mines at rates ranging from 1.8 to 3.6 6 million cubic feet per minute, requiring between 7 9,000 to 14,000 fan horsepower, respectively. 8 Although Jim Walter Resources has 9 been utilizing diesel-powered air compressors 10 underground since the late 1970s, the first 11 piece of self-propelled, diesel-powered 12 equipment was introduced to a Jim Walter mine 13 in 1984. The employment of that first 14 rail-mounted personnel carrier opened our eyes 15 to the superiority of diesel-power over battery 16 or trolley-powered. Today Jim Walter operates 17 around 200 diesel-powered machines 18 underground. Breaking these 200 units down 19 into category, we have approximately 70 inby 20 units, 30 heavy-duty outby units, and about 100 21 light-duty outby units. 22 There are numerous reasons why Jim 23 Walter Resources and many other coal operators 81 1 have converted their haulage and support fleets 2 to diesel power. These include: improved 3 safety, reliability, versatility, and 4 availability. Reflecting back to when all of 5 our mantrips were battery powered, weak 6 batteries often resulted in coasting or pushing 7 the manbus to the section charger. 8 If an incident occurred early in the 9 shift requiring immediate evacuation, that crew 10 probably would have had a problem getting out 11 in a timely manner. However, diesel-powered 12 mantrips are almost always available, which is 13 a valuable asset in not only production, but 14 more importantly in emergency situations. 15 Having been involved in the evacuation and 16 recovery of three mine fires, I cannot 17 overstate the importance of the availability 18 and reliability provided by diesel equipment. 19 During the 1986 gob fire at Number 3 20 Mine, I remember trying to gather additional 21 fire-fighting equipment on a battery-operated 22 jeep that was going dead, wondering if I was 23 going to get back to the fire. But much more 82 1 important was the fact I would have had to walk 2 three to five miles to get back outside the 3 mine if things suddenly turned worse. 4 It's also quite possible that our Number 5 5 Mine would be sealed today had our outby 6 fleet been electric powered, during the fire of 7 1995. 8 We strongly believe that 9 diesel-powered equipment in our coal mines 10 provides distinct operational and safety 11 advantages and can be operated without 12 compromising the health and safety of our 13 workers. While there has been occasions -- 14 occasional cases of excessive smoke due to 15 engine malfunction or incidental disruptions in 16 ventilation, these incidents are few and far 17 between and are corrected in a timely manner. 18 Jim Walter Resources utilizes the 19 cleanest burning engines available and probably 20 has the highest ventilation rates of any coal 21 mine in the country. At Number 7 Mine, where I 22 work, fresh air enters the mine at the rate of 23 3.4 million cubic feet per minute, and the 83 1 average airflow in the last open crosscut is 2 around 55,000 CFM. That's ten times the 3 name-plate requirement for gaseous emissions on 4 our ramcars. Airflow on our outby haulage ways 5 typically exceeds 100,000 CFM. MSHA's proposed 6 rule does not credit the operators' ability to 7 dilute and render harmless diesel particulate 8 matter in way of ventilation. 9 We realize that MSHA's received 10 comments suggesting that particulate filters be 11 required on all equipment, including equipment 12 classified as "light duty". Readings from our 13 mine-wide monitoring system indicate that CO 14 concentrations at the section belt tailpieces 15 normally stay around one part per million, 16 which is an indicator that outby diesel 17 equipment contributes only a small amount of 18 contaminants to the overall air stream. 19 We believe that safe exposure levels 20 can be maintained by applying an integrated 21 approach that involves: engine and fuel 22 selection, maintenance, training, ventilation, 23 and which may or may not include the need for 84 1 exhaust after-treatment. 2 Prior to final rule, safe exposure 3 levels for diesel particulate matter should be 4 scientifically established and operators should 5 be given the flexibility to use any of the 6 available options, including those outlined in 7 MSHA's Toolbox, to achieve compliance. 8 UCLA basketball coach John Wooden 9 once said, "All progress involves change, but 10 not all change is progress." This statement 11 summarizes our concern that MSHA is trying to 12 solve a problem that it claim to perceive, but 13 does not fully understand. 14 At this time I will turn this over to 15 Dale Byram. 16 MR. DALE BYRAM: My name is Dale 17 Byram, and I'm Manager of Safety and Training, 18 Jim Walter Resources. 19 In the preamble MSHA cites several 20 studies to justify the need to limit miners' 21 exposure to the DPM, and Jim Walter maintains 22 that MSHA has failed at this particular point 23 in time to substantiate through the studies 85 1 that current level, exposure levels, of the DPM 2 do place our miners at risk. We believe that 3 the current diesel regulations have appropriate 4 guidelines to test and to insure the immediate 5 health and the safety of our miners. However, 6 at Jim Walter Resources, we support and 7 encourage the research to determine if there 8 are exposure limits there that should be set, 9 because we don't want anything in our mine that 10 could create a health hazard for any of our 11 miners. 12 We understand the difficulties of 13 developing rules that unquestionably insure the 14 health and safety of the miner, while at the 15 same time giving reasonable consideration to 16 the operators trying to implement these new 17 rules. The intent of the proposed rules is to 18 insure the health and safety of the miner, and 19 we support this concept completely, yet the 20 procedures appear to be a bit excessive and 21 some burdensome to the industry. 22 We understand that NIOSH and NCI are 23 currently conducting a comprehensive study 86 1 involving the medical histories underground 2 miners in both metal and nonmetal mines. The 3 result of the study, when complete, will 4 constitute probably the best available 5 information, and this should be considered in 6 the risk assessments prior promulgation of the 7 rule. 8 I'd like to speak if I could about 9 two particular cases that I'm aware of to where 10 a workman's compensation situation developed 11 from exposure to diesel, to a diesel fuel. 12 You've already heard from Mr. Capley, and he 13 certainly is one of our employees and he went 14 through this event. 15 We had another employee at one of our 16 mines, Number 5 Mine, and he has a history of 17 similar reactions requiring medical treatments 18 with various other respiratory irritants, such 19 as smoke from an electrical fire, and them from 20 another situation from a chemical degreaser. 21 Co-workers in the same atmosphere at the time 22 that this gentleman had these separate 23 episodes, did not suffer the same adverse 87 1 reactions. 2 In review of this particular 3 situation, we would like for this not to be 4 generalized. This episode should be looked at 5 specifically. You know, is it possible that it 6 resulted from the individual's specific nature 7 of the idiosyncracy of his lungs that respond 8 to any type of a respiratory irritant or some 9 other intolerant chemical in the air. 10 Moreover, we cannot concluded from 11 that one case of an individual. This 12 particular individual involved should not 13 substantiate the fact that diesel particulates 14 or diesel fumes can create this type of a 15 problem for any employee. 16 In reference back to Mr. Capley, I 17 think we heard with Mr. Capley -- and he can 18 correct me, please do, if I'm wrong on this -- 19 that there had been a problem recognized in 20 review with that exhaust system on that 21 particular piece of equipment, and Mr. Capley 22 suffered lung irritation, which did progress 23 into pneumonia. And we regret this, as we do 88 1 any injury or illness that may take place in 2 our mines with any of our employees. 3 As Chuck mentioned earlier, we've 4 been operating diesel-powered equipment 5 underground for about 20 years. And for the 6 past several years, we've had about 200 pieces 7 of diesel equipment. Our medical records do 8 not suggest that we have chronic health 9 problems that's resulted from the exposure of 10 this diesel equipment or diesel exhaust. As in 11 the past, the medical history of Jim Walter's 12 employees, underground miners, will continue to 13 be monitored for signs of work-related health 14 risks. 15 JWR has always accepted it's 16 responsibility to provide a healthy work 17 environment, and agrees that safe levels of the 18 DPM, once determined, must be maintained. At 19 this point, we're not convinced that the DPM 20 exposure levels in our mines are placing our 21 miners at a health risk that warrants such 22 stringent requirements in the proposed rule. 23 Listed in the preamble to the 89 1 proposed rule, is that there is yet a reliable 2 and accurate sampling device that can detect 3 the DPM at low levels. Based upon that 4 admission, we question, then, the credibility 5 of all the data, when you look at research that 6 we have in the Boriac (phonetic) case to where 7 it contradicts some of the epidemiology results 8 that was listed in the papers. Then we feel 9 that there is such contradiction out there that 10 we, as an industry, and the UMWA and the 11 agencies who work together to try and determine 12 what is adequate, what is for our people. 13 Also, missing from the risk 14 assessment equation is a scientifically-based 15 exposure limit. If sufficient evidence existed 16 to determine a quantifiable exposure level 17 presenting a health threat, we feel that NOISH, 18 ACGIH, and EPA, or some other agency would have 19 already established a PEL. To our knowledge, 20 this conclusive evidence does not yet exist. 21 Until that point and time, again, we should 22 work together and combine our efforts to 23 determine what these safe levels are. 90 1 Thank you. At this time I'd like to 2 bring Mr. Larry Jordan to the stand. 3 MR. LARRY JORDAN: Mr. Chairman, my 4 name is Larry Jordan, L-a-r-r-y J-o-r-d-a-n. 5 I'm Coordinator of Diesel Maintenance Training 6 for Jim Walter Resources. One of my primary 7 functions at Jim Walter Resources is 8 administering the underground diesel 9 qualification training and safety retraining 10 programs for all personnel that maintain diesel 11 equipment. 12 In addition, I'm involved with the 13 underground diesel compliance monitoring for 14 all four mines. I also work with several 15 committees in developing fire suppression 16 systems, on-board CO monitoring on inby and 17 outby equipment, and other systems relating to 18 existing MSHA requirements for underground 19 diesel-powered equipment. 20 A few years ago a man named Nobert 21 Paas introduced to the industry a product he 22 developed and currently sells called the DST 23 System, processing technology. Initially, he 91 1 claimed that the DST System, which is a 2 dry-system exhaust heat exchanger that 3 incorporates the use of a disposable 4 particulate filter, was capable of removing 5 more than 95 percent of a particle matter from 6 the engine exhaust. He also claimed that this 7 technology was applicable to the variety of 8 engines used in underground coal mines. 9 Although at that time I believe it had only 10 been tested on one particular engine. More 11 recent testing indicates that the DST System 12 can only be relied upon to provide 95 percent 13 reduction of the DPM. 14 The proposed rule is obviously based 15 on the premise that the DST, or similar device, 16 would be employed by the operators to achieve 17 compliance. Based upon that assumption, Jim 18 Walter Resources estimates the cost of 19 compliance to be at least 5,575,000. This 20 figure only represents the cost to retrofit the 21 existing 100 machines effected by this rule and 22 was derived from the estimate that of 36,500 23 per unit to retrofit 70 inby machines, and 92 1 64,000 per unit to retrofit the 30 2 locomotives. 3 The locomotive issue is the most 4 troublesome because retrofitting may require 5 engine replacement and major frame modification 6 to provide enough space to accommodate the DST 7 and after-treatment device. 8 In addition, to retrofit cost, we 9 estimate the annual filter replacement to be at 10 lest 10,000 per machine, which equates to 1 11 million per year. These figures are based on 12 the three-shift filter life, however, we know 13 that a local coal mine, which utilizes the 14 disposable filters on ramcars, changes the 15 filters on a shiftly basis -- and I think that 16 was stated earlier. Changing filters three 17 times as often, will obviously costs three 18 times as much, to say nothing of the down-time 19 cost involved. Worse still, if MSHA mandates 20 the proposed rule for all the underground 21 diesel-powered equipment, including light duty 22 outby equipment, all the cost at JWR to 23 retrofit and maintain all the equipment will 93 1 double. 2 This is an exorbitant price to pay to 3 apply an unproven technology to solve a problem 4 that may not even exist. 5 Since MSHA issued the advance notice 6 of the proposed rulemaking, in '92, there's 7 been a flurry of activity in the area of 8 exhaust after-treatment development; however, 9 it seems that all have fallen short of the 95 10 percent mark. Our observation is that existing 11 technology is probably only capable of 12 providing reliable capture efficiencies in a 13 range of 60 to 80 percent. 14 I have information from NETT 15 Technologies, 3M Particulate Technologies, CEP 16 Products, Engelhard Emission Control Products, 17 and Johnson Matthey Environmental Products, all 18 admitting that the efficiency of the their 19 products is well below the 95 range that would 20 be required. 21 Also there is some inherent problems 22 associate with the use of disposable 23 after-treatment filters, such as a potential 94 1 fire hazard. Another area to consider with 2 after-treatment filters is the possible damage 3 that could result to the engine when the filter 4 begin to restrict the amount of airflow into 5 the combustion chamber. Improper airflow will 6 affect the engine components, such as valves, 7 injectors, and pistons, and these components 8 will show excessive carbon buildup. 9 Excessive carbon buildup will in turn 10 result in contamination of the lubricant. 11 Ultimately, contamination of the lubricant will 12 likely affect engine performance, ironically 13 producing higher CO and DPM levels. 14 MSHA's proposed rule is neither 15 technology nor economically feasible at this 16 time. Current after-treatment technology is 17 simply not capable of providing the 95 percent 18 capture efficiency required by the proposed 19 rule. Moreover, MSHA has grossly 20 underestimated cost of applying high-efficiency 21 filtration to the vast amount of existing 22 equipment subject to the proposed rule. 23 While all of these issues are being 95 1 resolved, JWR will continue to provide a sound 2 diesel maintenance training program that 3 promotes optimum engine performance. 4 Now I'd like to introduce Ted. 5 MR. TED SARTAIN: Hello, my name is 6 Ted Sartain, S-a-r-t-a-i-n. I'm the Senior 7 Ventilation Engineer at Jim Walter Resources 8 and also service the Company's delegate on the 9 National Mining Association's Diesel Task